an interview with Marlena Lyons
Sheryl: What do you mean by undefended love? Marlena: Undefended love is the ability to be fully yourself: emotionally non-reactive and self-evolving in the presence of another person. We chose the word "undefended" because we wanted to shine a light on the concept that most of us are unaware of how defended we really are. When we are defended, we are in reaction to our environment. We are either trying to get something, such as being liked or seen as kind or funny, or trying to avoid getting a certain response from our environment. When our attention is on getting or avoiding, we are not relating. Unfortunately, people often believe that the defended personality is who they really are. Actually, these defended or compensatory personalities prevent us from getting to know ourselves beneath those layers of protection. Sheryl: Since reading the book, I’ve become more aware of defended personalities within myself. I realized that I believed they are who I am. I feel I’ve tumbled into the "black hole" you describe in the book, and it’s not a comfortable place. Marlena: Yes, the first stage of dissolving the defended personality often feels that way: a free-fall into the unknown. We call it "emotional yoga," because you stretch into it until you become comfortable with not knowing who you are while shedding those layers of fear and uncertainty. When you’re in the black hole, and haven’t experienced your essence, you may wonder, "Who am I? What do I have to offer?" But once you connect with who you genuinely are, then you can consciously choose your life. Some people will think you haven’t changed at all, but you know you’re absolutely different. Your life choices become an expression of your authentic center. When your defenses drop, what is left is essence. Once connected with your essential value, you no longer need external validation, and you’re finally free to be yourself. Sheryl: I have observed how often outside events affect me. Something quite simple happened the other day. I was driving down the freeway and saw a police car sitting on the side of the road, and I realized that every time I see a policeman, I go into fear. I used your technique and asked myself, "Why am I so fearful?" What I eventually discovered was the belief "policemen get people who do wrong or bad things," and as I continued through the layers, I recognized a part of me who believes "I’m wrong and bad, and he’s going to get me and then everyone will know my secret." Marlena: We call that part the "cracked identity." This is a wonderful example, because in a way it’s so small: he didn’t do anything, but the program was still going on inside you. Emotional reactivity is at the core of many relationship challenges and problems in the world. If somebody does something in our environment, we react, and then we blame the other person for the reaction we’re having. Your example is good because basically this guy simply showed up, demonstrating that the tapes can play at the slightest as well as the greatest provocation. Sometimes we try to like or love the police officer, but that’s a "psychological shortcut" to where we want to ultimately end up. Adding another layer of "I should be loving and compassionate" becomes another "should" added to our personality. What most of us don’t know is that beneath the cracked identity (I’m wrong or bad) is our core essence, filled with the needed qualities of compassion, patience, self-love etc. We are cut off from that reservoir of support within us, so we try to feel a certain way before we really can. Dissolving this false identity allows the core of our being to shine through. Until we can dissolve negative feelings — I’m bad, I’m wrong, I’m unlovable, I’m insufficient, etc. — we will continue to be emotionally reactive, because we want to get away from experiencing those feelings. The process of peeling away these false layers helps us discover qualities we’ve been seeking that existed within us all the time. Sheryl: Another part of the book I found fascinating was your description of how closeness can actually prevent intimacy. I believe that I have mistaken healthy closeness, as you describe it, for intimacy. Marlena: Healthy closeness is a necessary stage to go through, but it’s not the apex of what’s possible in relating. We’ve discovered that behaviors that create closeness can actually impede intimacy. For example, some of the things that foster closeness are stability, comfort, security, keeping agreements, etc. Sometimes, in order to develop intimacy, what you may need to do is suffer through short-term instability, discomfort, and insecurity in order to bring up an issue that is troubling for both of you. Closeness can prevent you from doing that, because it feels like a threat. Reciprocity, equality, and approval are wonderful qualities that enhance closeness, but sometimes they are limiting goals. Sheryl: It seems to me that a lot of relationships are challenged to work out reciprocity and equality. Marlena: It’s important to develop these heightened qualities of closeness but at times leap beyond them into intimacy. We think that being equal is important in relationships, but what happens when one of us changes and grows in how and what we want to give? The balance then shifts. How do we develop a common ground not based on reciprocity — I’ll only give when you give? It’s such a tight place and doesn’t open up into "What do I want to give, and how do I react when I don’t get exactly what I need?" Sheryl: It does feel limiting when you explain it that way. Marlena: Another controversial idea we have in the book is that relationship isn’t a place where you get your needs fulfilled. Sheryl: Yes, I often hear people say, "I want or need this or that in a relationship." Marlena: Having relationship be a place where I can get my needs met is an incomplete description of what relationship can be. When we are undefended, getting our needs met is not the goal, but paradoxically becomes a byproduct of the intimacy that develops. Needs can be suspect, since they often emerge from our cracked identity. That’s why we say don’t fill your needs but follow them, where they’re coming from. What are they trying to fill up in you that feels lacking or deficient? More often than not, if you follow your needs, they will bring you right down to the cracked identity. Sheryl: That’s what I have experienced. Is it possible for a relationship to thrive, grow, and evolve if only one person is willing to pursue undefended love? Marlena: While it takes one person to be undefended and create a profound change in the relationship, it takes two people to celebrate that change. One person can do it, but when two people participate, a compassionate intimacy develops, since both of them are more dedicated to clearing up emotional reactions in themselves than attempting to control their partner. Sheryl: How do we know whether to stay in or leave a relationship? Marlena: We’re not suggesting you stay in an abusive relationship. The challenge is our ability to recognize, define, and identify what’s abusive. If you’re not sure, seek a professional opinion. Sometimes we have such sensitivity to criticism, not feeling welcome or agreed with, we experience these things as abusive. It’s important to be able to differentiate between over-sensitivity and an abusive relationship. Often you’ll perceive the way you’re being treated similarly to abuse you inflict upon yourself: I’m not lovable, worthy, or valuable. Ask yourself, "How clear is my perception?" What I perceive often reflects what’s going on inside of me and has nothing to do with the other person. Sheryl: That’s the "missing link" I found in your book: the perception that I’m coming from a defended personality gives me the ability to move through my levels of defensiveness. Marlena: Ultimately, going through the entire process is being able to dissolve the cracked identity and cultivate a receptivity to who we were before we started protecting ourselves. It’s not about superimposing a better self-concept, but having a sense of self that doesn’t fluctuate depending on how somebody thinks or feels toward you. Change is about becoming more of who you are instead of someone you are supposed to be. Sheryl: Is there anything you’d like to say in closing? Marlena: We often hear the comment, "I don’t want to keep processing." I say, "If you’re still processing the same issues, you’re recycling." We need to develop a digestive process that dissolves the structure from where the reaction originated. Once that’s dissolved, we are changed, and so is the issue at hand. What we’re talking about here is radical responsibility: taking personal responsibility to change. The self transforms, so your choices come from an authentic place, not a reactive one. Once you come into your center, you are free to redefine and shape your life so that it reflects more accurately the essence of who you truly are. It is only from this place that intimacy with another is renewing and sustainable. Marlena Lyons, Ph.D., and Jett Psaris, Ph.D., are cofounders of the Conscious Living Center, a counseling and workshop center in the San Francisco Bay Area. They will be facilitating a workshop at Discover U, "A Practical Guide to Exceptional Relationships," on March 10. A book signing is scheduled at Elliot Bay Bookstore March 11. You may contact them at <http://www.undefendedlove.com/>. |
Marlena Lyons (right) and Jett Psaris, co-authors of Undefended Love, are currently on tour discussing their new book. This interview provides a glimpse of some of the life-altering concepts and processes presented in the book.